Please stop giving people shit for not writing image descriptions. Typing can be hard enough for some of us as it is, having to type twice as much or even more than the toot itself can be a hellish prospect and we don't/can't always use accessibility devices.

One thing that really sucks about this is there's an expectation that you disclose you have a disability in order for not writing descriptions to be considered 'valid'. I shouldn't have to tell anyone my hands are screwed to be left to post images without threat of being scolded.

Lol I am a fan of assessableness features but expecting end users to always use them is stupid. I also think it's a little bit of trolling going on.

@sophia Agree, I already consider stupidly excessive when people write "selfie" and "eye contact".

@aurochs @sophia for alt text or CWs? Cause the latter has a purpose.

@aurochs alt text is the little description when you hover over an image. CW is a content warning, it's a feature built into the platform.

People tag for eye contact because some users have conditions that make seeing even eye contact in images range from uncomfortable to panic inducing. Nobody has to tag for it but it's basically a thing to do just to be nice.

@revolverocelot @aurochs content warning tags also help people mute terms they don't wish to see

@revolverocelot @large_dad sorry, should have figured out the CW at least 😅
About the eye contact... I still think it's a bit ridiculous, even more considering that so many people have avatar pics WITH eye contact.

@aurochs @revolverocelot a "hide this avatar" feature would be a really good an useful thing to have

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@sophia I like to do gentle reminders to add them occasionally but for people who are able. I hate when people are like IF YOU DONT U R BAD. Um no some people really can't

@sophia I have a friend who does speech to text and like, he can't do alt text at all. But it hurts too much to navigate to the alt text bar and type it in.

People just don't consider that maybe even some of the people screen readers help might also not be able to write alt text either.

@revolverocelot I don't know anyone with a screen reader who would begrudge someone who is unable to do it or it causes them pain, either. A lot of the aggressive stance seems to be on behalf of them, not them personally

@sophia ppl who don't use screen readers get hostile and say they are trying to help those who do, but end up bussing a lot of people who do (along with a whole bunch of other people) and it frustrates me.

I remember a thread some months back that basically claimed if you didn't do alt text you didn't care about accessibility and that's such a toxic stance to take

@revolverocelot I have spent years fighting for accessibility in a number of areas, and I'd never expect anyone to help me at the behest of their own well-being. I don't know anyone who would, it's better to look for pro active alternatives where they're needed

@sophia @aral
I'm asking myself if the description function of the pictures is cool for
Blind people however ?

@sophia This. I drop in on posts with un-described images and describe stuff for them or summon OCRBot when I can, but I have days where I can't.

@sophia that's one of the reasons i made OCRbot actually. the main reason was to remind people that captions are a thing and to hopefully encourage people to use them, but another reason was for people who can't provide the captions themselves to be able to automatically add them

@amsomniac OCRbot was actually done in about ~4 hours of total work, it's really not much. it's built on ideas other people have had and uses code written by others, too. all i did was throw it all together and host it on an instance with a large character limit

@lynnesbian it's done a hell of a lot of good on that front. I'd definitely use it for anything with clear text and really appreciate it being there, you've done an amazing thing with it

Think it would be cool if there was a way one could let another trusted individual get into the post and help in those regards...but I could see why that would be awkward

Never thought of that.
On the other hand, the issue is clearly able people who just don't want to put in the extra effort.
You might be legitimate not to do it.
But I'm not. I should do it because I can.
And clearly, the issue is with people who can (like me) but don't.

Isn't a bit like "MenAreTrash", it would be "AbleistAreLazy" ?

@sophia "I'm disabled and can't type. Let me type 2,000 words to explain why."

@mdhughes Because all disabilities are consistent in how they affect a person, always, across the board.

@sophia Ask yourself if you're doing unto others as you'd have done to you. If you're crippled, do you want ramps? If you're blind, do you want reasonable steps taken to explain image posts?

@mdhughes I'm not saying don't caption images? I'm saying don't be an ass to people who may struggle with it. If you're going to expend the energy to give them shit over it without knowing their circumstances, you'd have greater impact just adding a description in the comments and help instead.

I don't know anyone who uses screen readers who'd want people to feel they couldn't engage or were pained because of it.

@mdhughes @sophia "i'm ableist and i love to make fun of disabled people who type 48 words to ask that they not be yelled at for not doing things that cause them pain" 🙄

@sophia i find CWs a usability concern for the same reason, and I wish they were at least opt-in rather than opt-out

@sophia I'm sorry you're getting shit for this, especially since you put up described images more consistently than the majority of posters.

@sophia I'm personally quite confused by the people who go around complaining. As you point out in your thread there are all sorts of valid reasons and there should be no pressure or need to disclose them. Generally talking about it and setting an example – if you can is so much more positive.
My approach is: I personally can and don't mind writing captions. I appreciate captions as sometimes they help me understand picture content better. Full. Stop.

@Lumb @sophia and also Lynne created the OCR bot which can be helpful if it’s a mostly text image.

@sophia this is one of my biggest problems with some of these communities of marginalized individuals. There's so much infighting it's easy to lose sight of the real goal

My hands are similarly affected. I usually use a voice typer, it works great on image descriptions as well.
Just as a tip - not to say you need to.

@sophia as always, things are complex and nuanced. those who say "caption yer dam images" are thinking they're doing it from a place of fighting for a good cause, to help the less able, BUT, like you've just said it's also hard for some people to type SO you're also making things harder for the less able. as always, it's best to listen to people who have these problems and boost their voices. I try to caption images but I actually get really stressed out by it sometimes due to my dyslexia and anxiety, so I just don't post an image rather than feel very anxious about my issue with not being able to write properly. a little empathy and thinking about why people don't caption images can go a long way

@CornishRepublicanArmy Yeah, there is a big balance with it. It's really about not making assumptions and throwing bad faith into the mix. If your you'd go to the effort to argue about it you may as well add it underneath and help instead

@sophia tbh it felt like from my perspective

Disabled ppl saying ‘ please try to write image descriptions’

And abled ppl with just a surface knowlged of ablism, acfesablity and completing asses needs decided that harassment/pressure is a good and just thing!

Rather hen *listebing* or thinking abt asexaboity beyond a chance to yell st ppl

@sophia Very interesting piece of insight, thank you
(this from a fierce advocate of alt text, always learning new things).

Is it OK when/if one of us retoots a toot with no alt and adds alt? Or is it rude and/or shocking? – or any other feeling you might have if I did that on a toot from you for instance?

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